…including, oddly enough, the warning to “duck!”
Aside from toxic air, high heat and not enough money, things are going pretty well here at the D&G Cross Home For Wayward Hounds.
Fall Fantasy Series: Magical Deconstruction Mystery Derby, Part Next
In a comment to my last post on this subject, the ever interesting codrus made some comments that I figured I’d answer here, since I was sort of heading in that direction anyway. His comments/questions are in italics.
I go through a very similar process whenever I design a new fantasy campaign. I don’t have a single list of questions, but typical ones include:
What is the nature of the world/planes/etc?
The world is one of vastly unexplored areas, many of which are places where civilizations are still struggling to gain a foothold. Additionally, magic is still in flux in some areas, creating areas of very high mana or no mana at all or anything in between.
As to the planes, I tend not to use anything like the standard D&D planes. There ARE other dimensions, and some of the inhabitants of the game world were snatched up from their home realities and brought here by the Great Magical Return. Very much like the Banestorm that Steve Jackson Games has in their Yrth material.
What are the gods and what can they do?
I’ve not made a decision about gods. I never liked clerics much and they were the first thing I dumped from D&D. In many of my game worlds, either churches are much like they are here on earth or they are worshiping gods that actually walk the earth (like those of the Greeks and Romans, among others) and are therefore places you might want to go to in order to try and wheedle a bit of godly favor. Of course, sometimes you don’t want the gods showing up and messing about, so it can be a two edged sword.
What is the nature of magic?
Magic is a force of nature and can be manipulated and controlled by certain people who possess the right talent. But then, being a force of nature, magic can sometimes lash out and kick ass. This mostly happens in very high mana areas.
What is the nature of good and evil?
Barring the presence of gods, good and evil are pretty much run as they are in Real Life. If the gods are present, all bets are off, since there will be favored races of each god.
Thinking about your world, it does sound like there should possibly still be wild mages (proto mages) running around out there.
Oh, you betcha. In fact, the League of Mages in Cantapor is a very recent development. For every mage in the League (or their counterparts throughout the world) there are probably 100 proto-mages. In fact, I told the players that while only one of their characters has The Talent, they can all learn 1 or 2 very simple spells. It will take them 6 months or more, but they can do it.
Obviously, those who teach magic try to break their students of that sort of thing early on…which might imply that wizards are a pretty tightly wound batch of folks who are taught to never let any emotions out. Stoics?
In this gaming world, it is still too early on for mages to become the studious by the book types they will no doubt turn into later. Nowadays, they are still looking to learn/create new spells. Additionally, there is not alot of magical history to study, so it’s all about making magical history.
One thought for my current world I’m building is to embrace a bit of the chaos vs order that seems prevalent in the 4e setting. The old world crafted by the primordials and the gods, and back in the day it was much more raw, unpredictable and changing. So back then, spontaneous magical effects (casters) probably did exist, but these days, the stuff of the universe is more fixed. So spells still work, but every mage isn’t capable of ripping the raw energies of the universe asunder and bending it to their whims.
My plans for this series is to run it from about September to about March every year, with each years session being set 200-300 years after the last one. Thus, the last session saw the return of magic and the total destruction of the Old Civilizations…this session sees the rise of magic new civilizations…next session will see the codification of magic and an Age of Exploration…and so on and so on, concluding with the decline and disappearance of magic and the rise of a more technological society.
Brainstorming on “where magic came from?”, the other answer that often makes sense is that it was taught by the gods/demons/outsiders of unusual size. Or stolen from them. It doesn’t explain how the gods understand magic, but that’s not always a question that needs answering.
I’m toying with the idea of a race of creatures, possibly humanoid, who wander the world giving out magical advice to those who can use it. Not earthshattering stuff, but ideas or concepts that cause small bursts in the evolution of magic. One example might be telling Bob the Mage that it is possible to store raw mana…or even spells in a ring or other object. That would shake things up:)
Spells as ‘spirits’ is another common approach. I have a fireball spell because I made a pact with a fire spirit, or bound one to my service.
Actually, I’m thinking of making this world a place free of spirits/undead, altho I know that such crazy talk and would probably break my players hearts. Still, there will be at least one area based on Al Qadim, so there will be djinn and the like about.
As far as ‘clerical’ magic goes, a couple of campaigns ago, I’d sort of assumed a background where religious ritual gained in sophistication and helped define the gods, or grant a clearer vision of the gods. Early shamans did blood rituals to somewhat indistinct god-spirits, but the later temples had more sophisticated magics to accomplish the same thing. You could almost assume a “tech level” for magic in that world. High TL casters weren’t strictly more powerful, but they were definitely more sophisticated or more capable of sophisticated spells.
A cool idea, and if I used clerics as a character option, I might use it.
Taking that idea and running with it in another direction, one question that’s always come to mind for a D&D game is “Is there a difference between the ‘witch doctor’ Wizard of the White Rider Barbarians tribe and the learned Wizard of the Celestial Tower?” Insert your own names for the groups, but the idea is that both are Wizards (the class), but might have access to different magic feats so that there’s a significant color difference between the two styles of magic. Or in 4e, likely the witch doctors are probably just a monster anyway, so make it all up separate of any PC class.
Even in my earliest GMing days, I ran tribal shamans as being very different than wizards. Mostly, a shaman will have access to the sort of spells that benefit him and his tribe. If he lives in the desert, you bet he’ll know Create Water. If he lives in a land of many lakes and streams, probably not. This doesn’t mean shamans are less powerful than wizards, just that their focus is different. Also, the way shamans create and teach spells will be WAY different that how wizards do it. Much more of a Master to Student thing than you’ll find among wizards.
That sort of discussion fits reasonably well with your setup. Early primitive casters discovered a few different things they could do and exchanged or hoarded that knowledge. Later casters (the ‘Greeks’) actually studied the spells themselves rather than just trading existing effects, learning how to break them down and reason out or craft new spells in a more rigorous fashion.
Bingo! That is pretty much how magic in civilized areas will go, barring things like djinn or very high mana areas being involved.
Anyway, I love brainstorming, so hopefully that helps. :)
Indeed it did, sir!
More bloggage later today after I do Secret Stuff.
The Dociverse Blog 
Glad you found all that helpful. Some thoughts follow!
In many of my game worlds, either churches are much like they are here on earth or they are worshiping gods that actually walk the earth (like those of the Greeks and Romans, among others) and are therefore places you might want to go to in order to try and wheedle a bit of godly favor.
My proto-notes for my 4e game suggest that clerics are rare, but artifacts and holy places are common. You don’t seek the high priest, you go to the Temple of Poseidon Who Manifested In This Place To Save Our Sorry Asses and hope that Poseidon sees you there from his ocean fortress. Or you pilgrimage to the Shine of the Penitent Saint, where his bones are known to have healed supplicants who came with open hearts.
It fits a pattern I’ve used in recent games, which is to separate political power from divine power. The High Hierophant is a political position that may not come with all the clerical powers. An approach like this enables more stories where the church can have rotten seeds within the hierarchy. Also, stealing artifacts from the temples is full of win. ;)
Is there a distinction between arcane and divine magic?
In this gaming world, it is still too early on for mages to become the studious by the book types they will no doubt turn into later. Nowadays, they are still looking to learn/create new spells. Additionally, there is not alot of magical history to study, so it’s all about making magical history.
Instead of teaching stoicism, how do you teach apprentices to control their talents? Perhaps you kill students that don’t pass the tests?
The image that originally came into my head was that mad mages not in control of their hearts and magic are a threat. You either train them early or eliminate them before their talents grow too strong. I’m influenced by the Jedi/Sith argument here (one embraces emotions, the other locks themselves away from it), but I can see ways to do this. Perhaps a master who is just a complete bastard. He tortures his students, beats them mercilessly, taunts them, hurts them every time they lose control.
Actually, I’m thinking of making this world a place free of spirits/undead, altho I know that such crazy talk and would probably break my players hearts. Still, there will be at least one area based on Al Qadim, so there will be djinn and the like about.
Djinn don’t have to be creatures of pure spirit, just a creature born to magic. A spirit implies that it doesn’t have a material form at all, which isn’t how I’d perceive Djinn. In the D&D sense, djinn are elemental creatures, but for other settings, they could be physical manifestations of magic. If there are demons and angels and other inherently magical critters do they share traits with Djinn?
Even in my earliest GMing days, I ran tribal shamans as being very different than wizards. Mostly, a shaman will have access to the sort of spells that benefit him and his tribe. If he lives in the desert, you bet he’ll know Create Water. If he lives in a land of many lakes and streams, probably not. This doesn’t mean shamans are less powerful than wizards, just that their focus is different. Also, the way shamans create and teach spells will be WAY different that how wizards do it. Much more of a Master to Student thing than you’ll find among wizards.
White Rider Barbarians were a feature in my last game, barbarians with witch doctors necromancers (3.5 Necromancy-specialized Wizards with cultural feats). That’s where the primitives vs. cultured discussion started. Do they tap the same powers? Are they different enough to make a separate class? Useful brainstorming.
For my last game, I don’t recall answering the question to the players, but they were manipulating similar powers with some minor differences (enabled by feats).
Kill apprentice wizards who don’t pass the test…
Depending on the nature of magic and the perils of using it, one may not need to kill an incompetent apprentice.
Apprentice: Rabbi, what is that moaning I keep hearing from the walls?
Wizard: Oh, that’s George, my previous apprentice. He tried doing a Pass Through, but could never get the hang of Hierodrake irregular verbs. He’ll fade away completely in another couple of months, so don’t mind him.